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The Delph Donkey used to run from Saddleworth through Grotton, the engine sheds were at Delph and they used to stoke them up at night ready for shunting, there was a lot of railway goods traffic in those days. Delph Donkey on its last run was nearly pulled to pieces, every item that could be stripped… it wasn’t vandalism it was souvenirs, they grabbed the lot.
The Stamford mill was where that other little development is on your right hand side going down, you know where all the little units are now, facing the garage. That was a mill, I don’t remember it working, then Acorn mill would have been a cotton mill, and the old peoples bungalows there was group of cottages stood back off the road, a bit of rough grass, and they were demolished and the old peoples bungalows built, and someone tried it on that the whole lot was going to be St. Johns Street, but somebody put a spoke in the wheel there and said well it isn’t going to be, it’s going to be what it was Wrigley Square, and that’s what it is to this day.
Bob was asked about his duties as Sexton
When you were Sexton you had to dig graves, a real effort that was because burial was the rule then rather than the exception. In winter time, short daylight, it was real hard going, at the finish I used to have to get a couple of Greenacres diggers one of them George, was a real old card, he was said ‘I’ll be down toneet with a storm lamp’, and he used to dig for Waterhead by candle-light, course it was good odd-money. But of course, if they had got to know at Greenacres he would have got at least a good ticking off. It was really rough going, you used to have half a day’s digging to get to the actual plot in a blizzard.
Bob referred to the story of ‘The clock’
‘Margaret’s father comes into that, I was living over Waterhead at the time, and I had just come out of the churchyard and Harry said ‘hast tha a minute, what were up wi’ that theer clock last neet, he said I give over counting. Lewis Wrigley, he used to see to it, perhaps a nut here or a bit of wire there, and it took off this particular night, Harry said I gave ower counting at seventy two, there’s summut wrong there. It was terror to wind up with two long heavy weights down a shaft, and there was barley room to get your shoulders in to get this key on, and that was the problem. If it went a bit faster or slower you weighted it with coins to make the swing shorter or take them off and make it swing longer. Ian McFee had it rebuilt by Potts the big clockmakers and of course it’s not run badly ever since, although it had ad to be rectified lately.
Reminded about his phrase ‘gone boggart Bob said –
That was an old name, more or less appertaining to witches, as in Boggart hole clough, If it was a runaway horse you used to say it was ‘taken boggart’. The old people used lots of old words and phrases, and that was one of them.
The old yard, there used to be some fun out there, you could be digging and the sides would come in, five or six looking at you (coffins) you know, with the sides slipping. A terrible place, I don’t know if there were any burial laws in those days, 1828, there might have been there might not. It got a bit tough, I wondered what I had let myself in for sometimes one way or another.
When asked if it had given him any bad dreams, Bob said no, but on one occasion…….
There was a vault, you know Clara who used to sing in the choir, they had a vault in the old yard, and I couldn’t find the entrance to it, and I was sweating because time was running out. And old Mrs. Ashworth at the end of Taylor Green there, a real old card she was, I thought I’ll go and see if Mrs. Ashworth knows anything. ‘ Aye I do lad, I know where it is and I’ll tek thee down an all’ – and she did, straight to it. And the entrance to it was at the back the grave was facing east and when we pushed it away (the flagstone) there was a short flight of steps down, and there as was as we got in was a skeleton of a woman and a fourteen year old lad, you can read it on the grave stone now. They had never been cased off, you see they are put on shelves and then they should be bricked off, five courses of bricks. Of course they had never been sealed off and the water had seeped through.
When asked if he got paid per grave Bob said ..
Yes, that was extra, next to nothing - after a hard days work half a crown could be thrown at you!
(missing off the tape is the story of Bob being called over from the day school by the then vicar, who asked him to be Godfather to a baby which had been brought in by some Gypsies)
Bob then spoke about his family and his early life
My mother was one of ten, I was born there and spent a vast amount of time with Great Grandparents. I had good parents mind you, but I always seemed to be drawn to them somehow or another. And she was born in 1849, both of them, a very devout woman was the old lady. She wore a bonnet and cape, and there was always grace before meals. Bob talked about her handwriting – she used to write with two fingers on the pen, the old man he could read but could not write and had to sign with the cross.
He was a carter, two horses at sixteen years old, they used to travel from Oldham to Manchester in those days with goods, 1849. My grandmother lost her husband very quick, he was a foundry worker, five foot nothing, but had full command of the lot of them.
The store, Dixons at were at one corner of Church Street and the co-op at the other, and she used to shop at lot but the house was at Newbank, top of the school gates, she used to come up with both hands full, and a dozen of flour on her head, and she used to go through the institute ground and through the playground of the school. The school master used to say take those off your grandmother and get home, but back right away. Aye, flour on her head and she was five foot nothing, but it was hard going.
When asked about his brother and sisters
They all survived, but Edith died before her twenties, but the rest, Aunt Alice retired to Fleetwood and then they are buried in St. Annes, oh, she couldn’t do with cremation. Get away, I said, it’s only proper way now.
You could do anything in those days, have a few pigeons, rabbits in your back yard, nowadays they want it in triplicate these days. There used to be a short distance union, not homing pigeons, throw them up on High Moor, Brighton Road, with a tail wind a good pigeon could do it in one minute. There was big money, the Christmas Sweep was Five pounds The old stop watches were synchronised, and they used to follow them round to where they had to drop – UP, that meant they had to throw up the bird at the synchronised time.
Bob refers to a local character
Do you remember Old Vic, the Red Setter, he used to stand in front of the ice-cream van and who would not budge until he got his cornet. He would stop the ice cream van, bark away and wait until he got his cornet.
The Day School was a massive effort, strongly built, and the parish hall now is built out of the Day School stone. Mr. Jackson built the parish hall, and the Chapel bought the school, they couldn’t come to terms about the slates, so Mr. Jackson had to go to Mossley for his slates. Underneath there was a cellar and underneath that there was a trap, and you could get underneath and there was stored the platform, built in sections, spars and flats and all that, and Ben Fairhurst was the Headmaster at that time and anything going off that required the platform being put up meant you came up absolutely black. He was a great Headmaster, buried in the little cemetery, as Dr. Grundy is buried in the old cemetery. The old cemetery was started in 1828 and it was full up, and the new graves were a 1928 extension, that’s a little street, you’ll know it, just round by the old peoples bungalows are. That was consecrated by Dr. Temple the then Bishop of Manchester and the gateposts are inscribed. The parish has been really overwhelmed with building, luckily there’s something been saved on the top side there, there’s a little hamlet called Top’t Meadows - it’s really untouched, mainly anyway.
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The Delph Donkey used to run from Saddleworth through Grotton, there was a station at Grotton but the engine sheds were at Delph and they used to stoke the engines up at night ready for shunting, there was a lot of railway goods traffic in those days. The Delph Donkey, well, on its last run it was nearly pulled to pieces, every item that could be stripped… it wasn’t vandalism it was souvenirs, they grabbed the lot because it finished.
Now the Stamford Mill was where that other little development is on the right hand side going down. You know where all the little units are now facing the garage. Now that was a mill that I don’t remember working – then Warren’s Acorn Mill, that would have been a cotton mill. And the old peoples bungalows, there was a group of cottages that stood off the road, a bit of rough grass not lawn, and they were demolished and the bungalows built, and somebody tried it on that the whole lot was going to be St. Johns Street, but somebody put a spoke in the wheel there and said well it isn’t going to be – it’s going to be what it was, Wrigley Square and it’s Wrigley Square to this day. Oldham tried it on in Greenacres, let me see now, it comes up from Wellyhole – I forget his name now, a big Congregationalist he was, of course Greenacres is over three hundred and fifty years old, and it was named after him – Constantine Street– and they wanted to call it Wellyhole Street from Greenacres right down to Lees Road, it was scotched, so that didn’t come off.
(Someone asked if, when Bob was Sexton, did he actually dig the graves). Aye – oh yes, a real effort that was, because grave digging was the rule rather than the exception. Bob recalled that with the other jobs, caretaker of the day school, school dinners and dashing up there to get on with the digging – oh dear oh dear. In winter time with short daylight it was real hard going – at finish I used to have to go round by a sort of back door route for a couple of the Greenacres diggers – I forget his name now, a real old card he was. Right he said, Ah’ll be down ‘toneet’ w’it storm lamp. Course it was good odd money to him, but had it got known at Greenacres he would have got at least a good ticking off. But it got really bad in a blizzard, it took half a day digging out to get to the actual plot, so it was really rough going.
Bob referred to the story of ‘the clock’. Margaret’s father comes in on that, I was living over in Waterhead at the time and I had just come out of the church yard there, and Margaret’s father Harry said, Has’t a minute, I said Aye, he said what were up wi’ that there clock last neet he said it went on to seventy and I gave o’er counting. It was Lewis Wrigley who used to see to it, perhaps a nut here or a bit of wire there, and it took off this particular night. It was a terror to wind up – two big heavy weights down a shaft and there was barely room to get your shoulders in to get this key on. When it went a bit fast or a bit slow you weighted it with coins so you made the swing shorter or longer, but Ian McFie had it rebuilt by Potts, the big clockmakers in Leeds and it’s not gone badly ever since. When asked about it going boggart, Bob said that was an old name appertaining to witches, if it was a runaway horse it was taken boggart. There were a lot of words the old people used, and that was one of them.
Referring back to the new graveyard, when asked if it was in use Bob said there hadn’t been one for about three years, but it was still open. But there used to be some fun in the old graveyard when you were digging, there could be five or six (coffins) looking at you. A terrible place, no burial laws probably in those days - 1828. It was a bit of a lark, but it got a bit tough, I wondered what I had let myself in for some times one way or another. When asked if it gave him any bad dreams Bob laughed and said no never. Only once, not a bad dream, but when Clara who used to sing in the choir died, they had a vault in the old yard but Bob couldn’t find the entrance to it. I was sweating because time was running out, and then old Mrs. Ashworth at the end of Taylor Green there, a real old card she was, I thought I will go and see if she knows anything. Aye I do, she said, and I’ll go and tek thee down. Straight to it lad she went. The entrance to it was at the back, the grave was facing east and the entrance was a the back and when we pushed the flag stone away there was a short flight of steps down and there as we got in was a skeleton of a woman and a young lad, you can read it on the grave stone now, they had never been cased off. You see they are put on shelves and then they should be bricked off, five courses of brick, and they had never been sealed off, and of course the water had seeped through; so that was another one.
Bob said he got paid per grave, but after a hard day’s work it was next to nothing, it was only an old half-crown that would be thrown at you!
Bob reminisced about his family.
My mother was one of ten – I spent a vast amount of time with grandparents, I had good parents mind you but I always seemed to be drawn to them one way and another. She was born in 1849 – a very devout woman the old lady, I can see her with her bonnet and cape now. She used to write, but the old man he could read but couldn’t write and had to sign with a cross. He was a Carter, two horses at sixteen years old, and they used to travel from Oldham to Manchester in those days with goods, he was also born in 1849. I was very lucky to have such good grandparents, five foot nothing my grandmother, but she had full command of the lot of them. The Store (Co-op) was at one end of Church Street, the house was at what they call Newbank at the top of the School gates. She would go shopping and come back loaded up with bags, and carrying bags of flour on her head, and there was a way through the playground of the school, and the schoolmaster used to see her and say take those for your grandmother and get home – but back right away mind! She was five foot nothing, but all these bags on her head. It was hard going.
You could do anything in those days, have a few pigeons or rabbits in your back yard there, but today they want it in triplicate and it wouldn’t be allowed anyway, no matter who signed it. There used to be a short distance union, not homing pigeons, they used to throw them up on Highmoor, Brighton Road there, and there used to be different lofts and pubs in particular. It was big money, the Christmas Sweep was £5.00!
The old stopwatches were synchronised. (There followed a little conversation about homing pigeons and the Devonshire Pub in Lees which lead Bob on to another recollection)
There was an old war veteran of the 1914-18 war who lived in Den Lane there and he used to walk from Hey to the Pots and Pans Memorial Service every Armistice Day and I hardly ever saw that chap (John Swan) without something in his lapel almost throughout the year even if it was only a spring flower. His last journey was from the Devonshire pub, they thought that much of him, the lads.
Bob spoke about Dr. Grundy being buried in the old graveyard, by the dividing wall between the old part and the new part, and if you go down towards the middle of the old part there’s a gap that lets you into the new part, and he’s buried there under the black flag. It mentions his maidservant on the gravestone, she came from down south somewhere. His wife is there was well. There’s an interesting photograph in the vestry – he’s there with his dog! After he had done fifty years the window near the Stamford Road gates was installed and the bosses are carved out GDG and the date, and then of course he went on thirty years after that and the floor tablet was put down. My grandfather used to say he had an umbrella as big as a bell tent!
Bob asked Margaret if she remembered Old Vic the Red Setter, he used to stand in front of the Ice Cream Van and he wouldn’t budge until he had had his cornet. Bob said Margaret’s Dad showed him one day – just watch this he said, he pulled his pipe out of his mouth and put it in Vic’s mouth and there was Vic the dog walking about with the pipe. He was a grand ‘un, he would stop the Ice Cream Van and he wouldn’t stir until he got his cornet.
Bob spoke about the Football team, the Cricket team and the Hockey team. You had to make your own amusement in those days he said. There used to be a billiard league, one place we used to go to was a little cottage with the upstairs broken through and it housed a three-quarters table and if the ball got under what they called the dip, you were up against the wall and you had to use the poker to play with instead of a cue. On one occasion when we went and we had to open the door to get a particular shot in – aye all sorts went on.
There then followed a lot of general conversation after which the tape ran out. Listening to it again was a real joy, you could imagine Bob was in the room with you. He was interesting and amusing and, above all, a real gentleman. I hope you have all enjoyed reading about Bob’s reminiscences as much as I enjoyed transcribing them.
Kath Sellars.
Amazing memories. Thank you Kath.
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